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NGSM Redesign Introduction

2009-11-14 23:10:55 by AJ

Introduction Of The NGSM Member/Regulars/Apprentice System

Introduction - A lot of the older members in this thread have gotten tired of the lack of authority in here, and how there is no community, no desire to do well here anymore. In short, the thread has gotten stale and boring. I've organized a new system that should erase all of these problems. 6 months from now, the regular users may feel that this system is stagnant and needs changed out, and they can, of course, do that. That's the beauty of the NGSM. It doesn't live and die as a club. As long as there are people here that post sigs consistently, the NGSM will never die, and can be redesigned again and again to stay fun for sig-makers and to pump out the best quality sigs for requesters. It is under this idea that the voted-in members bring you the new NGSM Memberlist System.

The Memberlist - The Memberlist is the highest level a user can achieve in the NGSM. Members are users who are voted in by the current Members based on sig making skills, and overall contribution to the thread. Not only is a Member expected to make great sigs, but they also must strive to help younger users get better at photoshop by answering their questions and teaching them techniques. That's what being a Member is all about. After careful examination and much discussion, the fully updated Memberlist is as follows:


Promotion To The Memberlist - Members will vote 5 days before the end of every month on who they feel on the Regulars list is worthy of being a Member. When they receive the PM about the voting, the Member will either respond "I don't feel anyone on the Regular list is qualified to be a Member" or they will respond with up to two users on the Regulars list. If a Regular receives 1/3rd of the total vote, including Members who said they don't feel anyone should be a member, and not including members who didn't respond at all, then they will be promoted to the Memberlist. At a maximum, 3 Regulars can be promoted each month, but it is HIGHLY unlikely.

Removal From The Memberlist - A Member will be removed from the Memberlist if they are voted off by the other Members. During the vote when Members are voting in Regulars, they can also suggest a user for removal from the Memberlist. This can be due to inactivity or not upholding the standard. Not because you don't like the guy.

The Regulars List - An Apprentice will be made into a Regular automatically after two weeks of being an Apprentice, assuming no one has objected to this. Regulars have proven that they can handle making sigs while posting maturely, and will set an example for Apprentices. If a Regular breaks rules often enough to catch the Members attention, The Members will vote on whether he be demoted to Apprentice, or receive a temporary or permanent ban from the thread, depending on what the Members think he deserves. The current Regulars list is as follows:


Removal from the Regulars List - Regulars will be removed from the list if they have not posted in the thread for over 4 months, or if the Members vote him/her down to apprentice or vote for a ban. After a ban, a user most go through apprenticeship again. Repeated rule-breaking and consistent demotion from the Regulars list may be grounds for a permanent ban, in which case, a mod will be notified whenever you post in the thread.

Apprenticeship - As soon as a user posts in the thread interested in making sigs, the first experienced user to see them will welcome them to the thread and ask them to read this post, which I will provide a link to in my next post. Ask him if he wishes to join in on posting sigs. If he does, he is automatically an Apprentice. There will be no inspection. Apprenticeship is a two-week trial period. At any time during that two weeks, a Member can bring up with the other Members that he feels the Apprentice is breaking the rules, or a Regular can notify a Member and ask them to bring it up. If this happens, the Members will vote on whether or not to take action, and if so, what should happen to the Apprentice.

Disciplinary Action - If the Members vote that a user needs disciplinary action, these are the options that they can choose from:

1. Demotion: Members can be demoted to Regular, or Apprenticeship, and Regulars can be demoted to Apprenticeship.

2. Bans: If the Members feel you need to take a break from the thread to calm down or grow up, they can do so. They will post in the thread how long they have decided the ban should be, and give the user charged one post to accept the ban. You may post PM requested signatures in the thread, but that it is all. If you have a question involving photoshop, PM a member. If you ignore the ban, a mod will be contacted by all the Members explaining to them that you where fairly banned from the thread and ignored. This shouldn't be a common thing. This is only designed to keep the trolls and ridiculously immature users out. Bans can be anywhere from 1 day to permanently.

NGSM RULES - These are the rules all users will abide by in the thread or face disciplinary action.

1. No +1/spam posting. +1 posting is considered any post that is short, meaningless, or unnecessary. Contribute to the thread by either educated conversation, or posting sigs. If you want to respond to more than one user, combine all responses into one post. Just don't post here to get your post count up. That simple.

2. No trolling. Don't try and pick flame wars with users in the thread. If you want to talk about a touchy subject, that's fine. Be adults about it though.

3. Be mature. You don't have to post huge posts like this one every post, but don't be an idiot about posting either. If you guys turn this place into a chatroom, the Mods are gonna be all over us. All clubs have conversation in them, it just needs to be kept mature. No more of those one word posts.

Abuse of these rules on a regular basis will result in disciplinary action.

Sig Competitions - One thing we discussed that we'd like to do to get the comradery back into the thread was weekly sig making competitions. These will be done, but obey the NGSM and BBS rules while doing so. If you see someone post a really intricate request that you think would be fun for a contest, respond in the thread and say we should do a Contest on that. If a lot of people agree, then we'll do it. You don't need Member consent for a contest. If a lot of you want to do one, just do it. :P

Conclusion - You need to read this entire post if you haven't already. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them in the thread, or via PM. If your name isn't on the Member or Regulars list, than you're an apprentice, and there's a reason for it. It means you need to clean up your act. Follow the rules of the thread or we will come down on you. With all this being said, this should be a fun new change that will be really cool to be a part of.

Welcome to the Redesign everyone!!!

NGSM Redesign Introduction


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2009-11-15 12:37:46

sounds good.


2009-11-15 13:04:15

Personally, I love the idea of having a memberslist, although I'm not so happy about not being on said memberslist. After all, I was making sigs here back when Madknt still made sweet love to our eyes on a daily basis. I also like the idea of an apprentice/officer system. But instead of the older members just being here, occasionally making sigs when we feel up to it, we should be here to guide the new guys, teach them a little of what we've learned over the years. I'd also like to see the NGSM contests again. Weekly contests would really bring back the comradeship we lost some 700 pages ago.

(Updated ) AJ responds:

Couldn't agree more. Like I said with the memberlist though, extremely tentative. I just picked people I knew and trusted. I don't remember you that well is all. I just figure the group above would be good enough to sort out who should and shouldn't be a member. Fact is, I look up to most of the guys I put on the memberlist, and their opinion on who should be members will have a lot more merit than mine. If you've contributed a lot and made an impression on them, you'll be on it in no time. I'll make sure everyone who is active and deserving gets on the memberlist before the system is implemented.

Edit: You got voted in hooker. Now go vote on the rest of the potentials so we can wrap up the member list and move on to apprentices.


2009-11-15 15:04:34

I think you should put UCanCallMeJesus on the members list.

AJ responds:

I'll bring it up. And as far as being an apprentice, we'll sort that out once the memberslist is done.


2009-11-15 15:15:18

Looks good. No real complaints. Also, add UCanCallMeJesus, if he's interested. He drops by everyonce in a while to make sigs, and doesn't spam.


2009-11-15 15:23:49

While this all sounds good, I think anyone should be able to fill out PM requests, and anyone should be able to ask for criticism, but if not a member be unable to fill out requests made in the NGSM.

I think you have a good idea with the two week period policy, but I also think it's broken. The post maturity is a hard thing to do, without rarely posting, because half of the threads end up being sexual innuendos, or cock jokes, or memes. Even so, there are still serious threads, but normally die quite fast.

AJ responds:

Being voted in as an apprentice has nothing to do with sig making skills. It's all about post quality and maturity. If someone comes in and says hey guys, I just got gimp today and I'm really interested in learning how you guys make photoshops as good as these. Do you mind if I join this club? Of course he can. If you read the first post in the thread, the NGSM is a place where all people can get together and learn from and teach each other. As such, anyone can post any request they receive provided they are an apprentice or higher. Then the requester just has that many more options he can choose from.

As far as the post maturity, there are plenty of mature threads where users can post without spamming. And if a user whos post history is a little sketchy comes into the NGSM and politely and maturely asks if they can join as an apprentice, odds are they'll be able to join. However, NGSM isn't general, and you can get kicked off the apprentice list just as easily as it is to get on it if you haven't proven yourself.


2009-11-15 15:45:14

Trust me Tateos. Just stay away from General. It's how I got my post quality up enough to get in the NGPD. Wi/Ht forum is a great place, if you know enough about Newgrounds, and any one of the other forums, as long as you know what you are talking about.


2009-11-15 16:22:14

No, that's not what I meant.

I was saying, if someone gets a PM request for a sig, they shouldn't have to wait for an apprenticeship or membership before they post said signature.

And the other point I was trying to make is that their post maturity should not be based on posts in General, unless all or most of their posts are made there.

AJ responds:

Of course they could post that signature. If they simply put PM Request and post a sig, no one is going to say anything to them. Same as someone could come in and ask a quick question about photoshop without becoming an apprentice. These rules only apply to people who want to do requests made in the thread, then they'll need to be voted in.

As for the General posts, each individual member makes their own decision, and each individual member may decide General posts are an indicator of how a user will act in the NGSM thread, or they may not. It's up to them.


2009-11-15 16:25:59

Bro, if you spend all your time in General making shitty posts, thats what we see. Seriously. Just take a break from General, learn to post well in any of the other forums, then you can spend some time in General.

As for PM requests, I think no. It's not that hard for you to upload it to imageshack, or something of the sort.

AJ responds:

1st point is pretty much dead on Tateos.

Well, we've got a lot of shit to sort out yet. :P We'll probably vote on that before long too.


2009-11-15 23:13:36

Look dude there have been a lot of sig making clubs over the years of this place, just check the first page to see. Theres a reason why they are all dead, people come and go and what starts off as a passion to make sigs turns into a stupid task.

Trust me, creating a membership is a bad idea and completely goes against what this thread was the NGSM was made for.

AJ responds:

Actually it goes hand in hand with what the NGSM was made for, and you'd know that if you read everything. It's not like we're creating this memberlist with these members and that's it. Every month active members will vote in new members and vote inactive members off the list. As users leave, they will be replaced by more members. This is just to give people in an incentive to do good work, and to have an authoritative figure in the club to keep people from spamming the thread up as opposed to letting everyone turn it into the general forum. Nothing wrong with that, as a matter of fact, we're obligated to try and keep the thread in line as senior members. That's how I look at it. The only negative thing about it is it's going to take a lot of work to get it on its feet. But most of it is done. We could really use your help...


2009-11-16 01:06:28

It just seems like your purpose of having a membership is to reduce spam, and there are other ways of doing that. The problem is when the regulars use the thread for things other then sig making, and that includes dealing with spam.

Creating a membership isn't going to reduce the spam, mods do that, all this is gonna do is slow down the process of sig making. Your other ideas are fine, its just im weary of a membership because thats how all of the other clubs died.

AJ responds:

Yeah, because the mods have done so much about it already. It's our responsibility to tell the mods when people are spamming the thread up so that they don't have to look through all these huge ass C&C threads. And I don't think it would effect sig making at all. I think any time we put into the memberlist would be replaced by people spending more time in the thread because it's more of a community and more fun.


2009-11-16 06:40:30

Ok so uhhhhh ill go out and say first and formost its nice to see someone other then my self trying to clean this crew up a little.
That aside a memberlist and acceptance programe is a dumb idea i think.
This club was based on the ASM which was the end all be all sig crew simply cause there were no rules at all. We have some base rules here but for the most part its jsut a remake of the ASM.
I like the idea of a Regulars list is ok but ultimately unneeded. Simply cause you know who is comming by all the time and who isnt. And the rules you tossed out there are smart and I myself had to self adhere to said ideas once i stoped being a spammer...but again they wont hold as rules so much as help full guidlines.
on the subject of being voted in: i dont care what soemones post history is so long as thier trying to improve their photoshoping skills and not spamming our thread. Fuck man look at my old posts and youll see i should have banned soooo many times. well that all i member reading for now ill be back in a few to say something else im sure....but first its time to jerk off

(Updated ) AJ responds:

As far as apprenticeship, it's to regulate who all is coming and who isn't. And the vote in isn't going to exclude mature people who are interested in learning photoshop. That's not the point AT ALL. That's COMPLETELY against what I said. And if people are getting banned in general, that's their own business. But if you go through a page or two of their posts and all of them are basically "Z0MG UR GHEY" that person probably doesn't need to be posting in the NGSM until they are a little more mature. Look at my post history and I've probably been banned just as much as you. But I doubt either one of us been banned for acting like a noob for a long time.


2009-11-16 06:46:30

fahrenheit knows what im talking about....membership is a crew killer when it comes to this kind of crew. Everything else you said wasnt bad MM its jsut the membership idea isnt gonna work.
May i also point out that ive asked the mods a few time to put my up for modship over jsut the C&C section simply cause ive been in the C&C section my entire BBS carrer and I know what flys and what dosent now a days. Ive asked that maily so i can help keep the NGSM cleaner but today i noticed like two or 3 of our formenr members are currently mods....namely the topic starter...whens the last time you saw BBM make a sigs...fuck man in the ASM me and him would work for hours on end to keep that club afloat soem times...and now he shows love by being as i dont know any more...i feel old

AJ responds:

I think that old feeling is a lot of the reason why you and fahrenheit are the only ones that are strongly against it. You say it's a crew killer. I say this is the NGSM. The thread isn't going to die any time soon. Anything is allowed. The regular users of the thread can do what they feel is necessary to keep the thread in line. I'm not expecting to come on here in 2019 and when I post have a bunch of guys be like OMG UR MICHELINMAN! U MADE TEH MEMBERLIST! Some clubs die when the members that created it leave, and you put up some examples, some clubs don't (NGPD, WI/HT? Regulars List.) That's irrelevant. Assuming this club dies or starts failing, if people feel the system is outdated, they can just vote to get rid of it. Then everything goes back to just like it is now. This thread can evolve, unlike all the other old sig clubs, and you guys don't seem to understand that. You're just kind of sitting back reflecting on the good old days.

The users that post in this thread nearly daily love this idea. It's breathing a new life into what we do. The thread has become stale and boring. With a members list, users have something to strive for. We'll be a community again. Sig competitions, get to know each other, all while limiting spam and turning determined new users into mature, respected posters. This idea brings a lot to the table, and all of us that post the most can see that. You're not just going to stop this idea by being (for lack of a better word) an oldfag and saying wellll it failed when this happened back in '06, because a lot of us want to see some changes. You and fahrenheit will be exempt from the memberlist/apprenticeship system if you so choose, but people believe in this cause. If you either of you have any more comments, you can bring it up in the discussion thread link I gave you, that way the members can say their piece.


2009-11-16 16:35:03

Well it seems clear to me that you seem very focused on doing this, and outside of a mod stepping in (which I don't think will happen) theres probably nothing to stop this.

But I just want to say my piece, I'm not just against a membership because its a crew killer, but it seems wrong to me for you guys to prevent other people from making sigs.

If a person spams the thread report him to the mod, but just because he has notorious roots in the general forum or he has irked the members the wrong way shouldn't mean he has no right to make sigs.
This thread was meant as a end all solution to sig requests and sig making. A community is nice, and a place to make friends is nice, but this threads purpose was for neither.

And it seems like you could impeach on other peoples right to make sigs because you wouldn't want them part of your community, which is against what the NGSM was made for.

But, I doubt I can change your mind. I just want to put my opinion down because I don't think I accurately explained it before.

(Updated ) AJ responds:

fahrenheit, that's not what this is about. It wouldn't be ridiculously strict or anything like that. The voting would only be to keep the spammers at bay. There's a reason that the only people getting voted in as members are the mature and respected people in the NGSM. That's why I selected people LIKE YOU, who wouldn't vote people out of the thread because they got into a fight in general with you, but rather because you think they would just spam up the thread. Although, I have been thinking about it, and perhaps, it's more fair to accept everyone as an apprentice and see how they post in the thread before telling them to leave. So how does this work for you? HellboundNinja, I'd like your opinion on this too. I think we all want something here that makes everyone happy and gets the "stale" out of the thread.

When a user shows up in the thread asking if they can make sigs, they automatically become an apprentice, regardless of post history, etc. Apprenticeship lasts 2 weeks. If no one objects, they are automatically accepted as a regular. If someone objects, a vote will go on for say 3 days, and if the majority of the members who voted say the user is doing more harm than good, he will receive a ban from the thread for a length of time that the members will decide based on what the apprentice did to cause them all to think he's breaking the rules. That way what they do in any other forum won't come into play. Just how he acts in the NGSM.

Then at the end of every month, the members would vote in one or two new members from the regulars list. Something like that sound a little more appealing?


2009-11-16 17:25:26

I'm not so sure we need a regular, and members list. :/ I think it would be easier with just the Apprentice list and the Members.

(Updated ) AJ responds:

Think of it this way. There only is a Regular and Members list. Apprentices would be included with Regulars, since you automatically become a Regular after two weeks. The only difference between an Apprentice and a Regular is that Apprentices get banned from the thread for a period of time while Regulars get demoted to Apprentices if they break the rules.


2009-11-16 17:52:36

All right. Makes sense. We can always make changes if certain things don't work out.


2009-11-16 21:15:43

This is turning out to be quite interesting.


2009-11-16 21:41:46

Still picking the reg's?

AJ responds:

Nope. Read the In Conclusion part at the bottom of the post I made.


2009-11-17 17:50:47

I done stealed somebodez request :3


2009-12-03 18:25:25

I thought you were going to post the updated list before you left.


2009-12-05 22:32:53

I too have been an apprentice for a while, but have yet to be welcomed to this regulars list.

I'll keep posting sigs as normal, but it'd be nice to see an update.


2009-12-30 18:04:19

Ok, i've not been active at all recently. Mainly because I usually come back in streaks. So I would like to request myself off the members list.